Cranky Customer

The unilateral ways that contracts exist in this and I suppose all other countries where one of the parties has full power and rights to change the terms of the contract prior to its term being reached is mind boggling, and the legalese should be outlawed. Along the same lines rebates that have requirements that necessities a lawyer, should also be unlawful. If manufacturers want to entice customers to purchase their product with a rebate they should make it effective at the time of purchase and take the load off the postal service at the same time.

YPN seems to be a study in extremes. For example, after I was approved to run their ads, an account rep actually called me to see how I was coming along, did I need questions answered, have any concerns, etc. Google doing that... hah.

I know a guy (not Randy) making huge money with Google ads who get solid personal attention from Google, but a little publisher like me takes a week to get a reply to an e-mail. Yahoo called me.

That personal, proactive attention I got when I joined seems at the opposite end of the spectrum from the experiences Randy describes.

Sort of funny since Randy is a big fish and I would expect Yahoo to treat him with the care and deference I see Google giving to that big fish I know.

So in my experience...

Yahoo: at times surprisingly ingratiating, but with mood swings to mind-numbingly epitomizing corporate dronery, and offering the features you really desire, but which don't always work.

Google: Like a bank. They'll give you a checking account, but you don't get a "personal banker" until you put some serious dosh in it. And you can rely on them to be very consistent about that. And while they may not offer all the account features you want, the banks that might don't have enough branches to make you comfortable.

What's really amazing is that as of my posting this, 4 out of 5 of your Yahoo targetted ads are still for HD, even though the posting has scrolled off the page (though there's still a sidebar link to it. I had similar problems with Google's ads and finally just dropped them from my site. The few dollars the ad revenue was bringing in just weren't worth the hassle - not to mention (okay, I will) Google kept "adjusting" my totals at the end of the month to reflect "more accurate" figures... does that mean the day to day tracking was inaccurate? And how come the accuracy always seemed to result in them paying me less?

I frequent a site called EtiquetteHell.com, which started as a site discussing bad wedding behavior and has expanded into etiquette issues in all areas of life. There is also forum on Delphi for discussion of these issues. One of the things we roundly decry is fundraising for weddings/parties, especially the new variant, the wedding sponsorship. Yet because the site discusses weddings, the ads are frequently for wedding services, including one for a company that advises you on how to have your wedding sponsored.

This would have been funny--we don't really care if it is wasting the advertiser's funds in this case--except that many people thought our forum host had something to do with the selection of the ads. If people thought that Randy had some choice over what ads were appearing, it would certainly cause some to question his intelligence, if not sanity.

Fortunately, we only question Yahoo's.

(Whew! -rc)

I feel compelled to tell you that the Yahoo ads when I read this page include an ad for Google's AdSense.

Is Yahoo so desperate for money that they are willing to accept an ad for their competitor?

(I hadn't spotted it until you pointed it out, but yes, I saw it too. My guess: it's an affiliate of Google, not Google themselves, running the ad. At least it's appropriate for the discussion! -rc)

Don't know if you've heard about this, but apparantly item 11.l in the TOS states you can't show your ads to visitors from outside the US. I can't verify the veracity of this as I can't find the TOS myself (and am not a member of YPN), but I thought it might be something you'd like to hear about.

Source: http://www.boingboing.net/2006/03/22/yahoo_if_you_use_our.html

I had not in fact noticed that! Here's what 11.l (that's 11-"ell", not "11-point-1") says:

11. ABUSE OF SERVICES. You agree not to: ...

l. display all or part of the Ad Unit to any user located outside the US;....

The clear message: people outside the U.S. are second-class Internet citizens who are not allowed to look at Yahoo's ads. (Is that really what they mean to say? No idea. But I'm not going to let them dictate who I allow to look at my site; I'm not going to subscribe to some sort of service to block anyone surfing in on an non-U.S. IP address, either. And I'm rather pissed that Yahoo would consider it "abuse" of their services to allow foreigners to look at my site.)

I have thus dropped the YPN ads from this site, as well as my popular joke site. I'm not going to do business with YPN again until they change this ridiculous policy. -rc

In your posting you state: "But more widely, this isn't only about Yahoo; many big companies expect users to read and agree to lengthy Terms & Conditions that it'd take a second-year legal student to understand, and that's bad enough. To then make a change (or 12) to those T&Cs and not say what has changed is way too common in the online industry."

I can assure you that the problem exists with credit card and brokerage account changes received in hard copy as well. I recently received what amounted to a book size disclosure statement from Charles Schwab & Co. telling me that the they had changed the terms of my account without identifying the changes. And about a year ago I received the new terms for my American Express credit card: in the fine print they reduced the grace period before charging interest from a minimum of 21 days down to zero days. That means there would be interest charges no matter how quickly one paid. The first time I got a bill from AmEx with those charges they got their card back . . . cut into pieces.

Wow... It seems to me you're really off base with this rant.

Yahoo explained to you that your site did not fit the category you chose, and that their advertisers request their ads be shown on sites with relevant content. But apparently you want Yahoo to violate their contracts with their advertisers and show those ads anyway.

Yahoo's T&C state that you aren't allowed to show the ad units to users outside the US. According to you, the "clear message" is that people outside the US are "second-class citizens". Um, no. Yahoo's clients are paying for their ads to be shown to US users only, so that's what Yahoo is doing.

Then you make the ridiculous claim that Yahoo is dictating that you not allow users outside the US to view your site! Maybe you're confused by the term "Ad Unit"? That means the ad, not your whole site.

What happens if Yahoo ignores their clients' requests for how their ads are shown? Yahoo loses its advertisers.

I get the impression you don't really understand how the online advertising business works. You're usually more rational than this.

(OTOH, that they changed their T&C without making it clear what the actual changes were is indeed frustrating.)

It sure would be nice if you actually read what I said, rather than skim it and make your conclusions from that. -rc

So long, Yahoo!

RIP!

Was nice knowing you!

Obviously, with this sort of business model, their corporate demise is imminent.

Either that, or someone will buy them out...

In the past year, Yahoo has turned over information to the Chinese government leading to multi-year jail sentences for a reporter and a civil servant who complained of official corruption. After the first incident, I dropped all connections with Yahoo and assumed everyone else in America would do the same. Yahoo said its actions were a price they had to pay to work in China. I think losing all American business should be the price they have to pay for violating users' expectations of privacy. I seem to be the lone portestor, however. It's heartwarming to see an anti-Yahoo rant, even if it is for a different reason.