"Paypal Sucks"
Some people really hate Paypal. I have a love-hate relationship with them: I love that it's easy and secure to move money around online without having to type in credit card numbers on a site with dubious security. I hate that Paypal tries to dodge federal regulation by insisting it's not a bank, when it probably really is. Indeed, their customer service is very bank like -- it sucks!
I haven't had any horror stories with them, but there are so many horror stories about Paypal that there's a popular web site called Paypal Sucks that's helping press a lawsuit against the eBay-owned company.
Juan Zamora probably would say that "Paypal sucks". The Spokane, Washington, man pulled into a gas station and used his Paypal-issued debit card to buy fuel. He knew he had $90 in his Paypal account -- more than enough to fill his '94 Camero.
After putting in $26 worth of go-juice, he went on his way. But Paypal debited his account not $26, not the entire $90 he had in his account, but $81,400,836,908. He found out because Paypal left him a voicemail message asking him to confirm the transaction.
Yeah, gas prices are up, but not that much!
"That's a B, as in billions!" an astounded Zamora told the local newspaper, the Tri-City Herald in Kennewick.
Worried that Paypal would drain his other bank accounts to cover the "overdraft", Zamora called Paypal customer service. That was probably a mistake.
"Somebody from a foreign country who spoke in broken English argued with me for 10 to 15 minutes," Zamora said. The customer service rep actually asked him, "Did you get the gas?" he said. Well yeah, but not that much gas! "Like I had to prove that I didn't pump $81,400,836,908 in gas!"
It got cleared up, apparently without Zamora having to make up the difference.
(Source)
Paypal customer service gave me the runaround recently too.
Readers can buy upgraded subscriptions to my weekly This is True weird-news newsletter. If they don't want to have to bother with renewals every year, I have an auto-renewal button that sets up a "recurring" annual subscription using Paypal. That's cool: I don't have to send them renewal notices, and they don't have to bother doing anything to renew every year.
But now and then people need to cancel their subscription, and they often write to me for directions on how to cancel. I used to have a link to Paypal's help system that gave them directions -- they set up the subscription, and it's easy for them to cancel it, but it's sometimes hard to find exactly where to find that cancel link.
That was great -- until Paypal changed their help system, which broke the link. So I went searching for the new one, and absolutely could not find it. Their help system now uses dynamic URLs: it uses the "session ID" to keep the context, which means I can't give someone a URL, they have to drill down the help menus themselves to find the information. Not very helpful!
So I clicked on the "Contact Us" button and asked Paypal: what's a link that I can give to my subscribers so they can cancel their subscriptions?
Here's my message:
Subject: How do I link to an answer? Additional Information: You have a nice help page, "solutionId=#####", which tells people how to cancel a recurring subscription. But the link to it is ridiculously huge, with a session-id and more garbage embedded. I want to be able to link people to pull it right up WITHOUT it having to wrap in an e-mail. Please provide a link I can actually USE for this purpose to reduce my AND YOUR support loads. Thanks.
And sure enough, in due course I got a reply:
| Dear Randy Cassingham,
Thanks for contacting PayPal. My name is Carolyn and I appreciate the opportunity to assist you with your questions. You can cancel your subscription through your PayPal history log. Here's how:
If your subscription period is over, the following cancellation message will be posted "Subscription Completion." Additional subscription payments will not be taken from your PayPal account unless you renew or start a new subscription with a seller or service. Here's more information:
It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing PayPal. Sincerely, |
Notice anything? Yeah: they're telling me how to cancel "my" subscription. I don't have one! See, I don't have to pay for my own newsletter. They saw "how to cancel subscription" and replied with a boilerplate reply to get on with their day. It didn't answer my question at all. So I replied:
This doesn't answer my question AT ALL. How do I ***LINK*** to this information to help my customers?!
Two days later I got the reply:
| Dear Randy Cassingham,
Thank you for taking the time to write to us with your concerns. I apologize for the difficulty you've experienced. I will try my best to assist you with your inquiries. In regard to your query, I believed what you're trying to point out is that you wanted to set up a subscription wherein you can send automatic payments to your customers. If that's the case, please see details below on how you can do that. To use the button designer, your web browser must be JavaScript enabled.
Note: After creating your first button, click "Go to My saved buttons" and bookmark this page for easy access to your saved buttons. The Website Payments Standard Integration Guide is a comprehensive manual that includes instructions for incorporating PayPal payments into a merchant's website. Included in the guide is information relating to:
Here's how to locate the Website Payments Integration Guide:
I would like to let you know that you are valuable to us, and it is always my priority to help you resolve your concern. If you do feel that this information is not enough, please do not hesitate to email us back or call us at 1-888-221-1161 so we can assist you directly. Sincerely, |
Translation: "Oh, our first assumption wasn't the answer to your question? Let us assume something else that had nothing to do with your question."
I replied again:
NO. Can't you just READ my original message rather than just guess what it's about and sending ridiculous boilerplate replies that don't even come close to the topic?I want a LINK that I can give to my customers that tells THEM how to cancel recurring subscriptions. Your stupid "help" system throws all sorts of "Session ID" garbage on links that don't work when removed. I need a CLEAR and PERMANENT link that won't break in e-mail which I can send to users who need help.
I may as well have been talking to a wall. In fact, I was. Another two days for their reply:
| Dear Randy Cassingham,
Thank you for taking the time to write to us with your concerns. I am happy to assist you further. I am sorry for the inconvenience that this has caused you. Actually the buyer cancel this subscription on their PayPal account. Please forward this information to your buyers. You can cancel your subscription through your PayPal history log. Here's how:
If your subscription period is over, the following cancellation message will be posted "Subscription Completion." Additional subscription payments will not be taken from your PayPal account unless you renew or start a new subscription with a seller or service. Here's more information:
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again. Sincerely, |
Un-freaking-believeable! They can't just say they don't have a URL? I replied:
Incredible.A URL. I want a URL with instructions. You can't provide a URL? I've asked what, FIVE TIMES now for a URL and you can't provide that? And you call it "help"? Unbelievable!
They were apparently even more pissy than I was -- there was no reply from Paypal's "customer service".
I'll tell you what Paypal needs. No, I'm not going to say "account managers" or "better customer support" or even "smart customer support".
No, what Paypal needs is a strong competitor.
Feel free to tell your Paypal horror story using the Comments form.
>:-(
Randy Cassingham is the author of This is True and the True Stella Awards, and is the founder of Cranky Customer.
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Comments
Not really a "horror" story, more of an annoyance.
When I first moved to Sydney, I still had CC and loan debt in the states and getting my salary transferred back to my bank in the states is expensive. I found that Paypal's fees were somewhat less at the time. Approximately half of my monthly salary was the breakeven point actually.
So, I opened two paypal accounts, one drawing on my credit card here and one on my credit card and bank account in the states, and then proceeded to transfer money back and forth between them. It was a great way to get money available to make my payments without having to worry that a check or money order would get lost in the mail (not to mention earning cash bonuses on two credit cards). Then the fees with paypal went up and it became cheaper to use direct bank transfers to move my money around, but I kept my two paypal accounts just in case.
At some point a few years ago, Paypal decided that since both accounts were for one person, they should be one account and without any warnings, they merged my two accounts into one. I can sign into it with either email address and access any of the CC or Bank accounts that are tied to it, but I cannot unlink either email address nor can I change my bank account as it is the primary. I've tried several times to get this corrected before just giving up. That's not really a problem anymore as I don't use the two accounts to transfer money between countries anymore.
The annoyance factor comes in when I purchase something using one email address and the seller gets the other email address from paypal and sends all of the receipts and notices to the wrong address. Naturally the wrong address is my work address and about half of what I get through paypal is lost in the email filter here. I've even been denied service by several sellers who won't take the time to sort through this mess (their loss).
One of these days I'll get annoyed enough to cancel both accounts and stop using paypal. It would certainly happen if I found some of what I've read here happening to my account(s).
As a side note, to get around auto-responders you could try spacing out your key words ... not "refund" but "r e f u n d"....
Posted by: Ernie, Sydney Australia | July 21, 2009 7:24 PM
I had a Paypal account for years. Then someone bought something from me on eBay. It was just less than $500.
The purchaser paid through Paypal.
After Paypal told me about the payment, I sent the item to the purchaser.
Then Paypal told me that 'their customer' had not approved the purchase. They never gave me a satisfactory answer and insist that the credit card used to pay for the item (through Paypal)was improperly used. Even though the item was evidently sent to the address of 'their customer' Paypal would not let me withdraw the money from my account -- and Paypal shut down my account.
All my efforts to get more information or to have the matter reviewed were rejected.
Paypal says it is my obligation to go after the purchaser on my own -- about 2000 miles away.
Posted by: John from Florida | August 16, 2009 2:36 PM
Ok so I just got off the phone with customer service. I had sold an item last night, come to realize that paypal has my money on hold! This is what aggravates me, AND the rest of the people on this forum regarding the hold...
1. If the customer whom bought the item from you is not happy with the product you have sold them, paypal can hold your money up for weeks with their HORRIBLE customer service. (Even though it clearly states on ebays listings "returns not allowed", it still seems as if paypal tries to bypass that).
2. You have to wait on the customer to leave you a feedback or three days after it has been delivered for it to clear. (Ok, lets think about this for a second... If you do not have the tracking number of the shipment, the customer could say it was never received thus the payment is sent back to them! So now you are out the cost of your item, AS WELL AS money out of your pocket for shipping AND the item!!!)
3. Customer service, Customer service, Customer service, Customer service!!! Since they have turned into this HUGE monster, its their way or no way! If you dont like it, so what, deal with it! I do not see how a company like this, this BIG has such horrible CS reps on call. She pretty much said it was Ebays fault my money is being held. Well hellllllo, WHO has their hands on my money right now? EBAY? No you bafoons, YOU! You said ebay will tell you when its ok to give me my money, but then you said I need to enter a tracking number so you can give me my money after the item has been received, feedback or not, 3 days after you see its shipped, I will receive my money. Now how is that on Ebay?!?! I am telling you people, we need to stand up to this company, go at them hard, strong AND FAST so they can stop ripping us off! Send them emails stating their rules have changed so much in the past year, we will not stand for it! Close your accounts, show them your serious.
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You do realize who owns Paypal, right? eBay. -rc
Posted by: Victor PA | August 30, 2009 8:25 PM